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ZL3AI  > APRDIG   18.06.04 09:33l 598 Lines 22357 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
BID : 3486-ZL3AI
Subj: TAPR Digest, Jun 12, 2/2
Sent: 040618/0809Z @:ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC #:26058 [Chch-NZ] FBB7.00i $:3486-ZL3AI

Subject: Re: ping...APRS Traffic ?
From: Josh Gould <>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:40:02 -0400
X-Message-Number: 18

I was kinda wondering how to decypher those.  I've always kinda ignored them 
because I was in the traffic that I was seeing on the D-700...



On Friday 11 June 2004 22:15, William McKeehan wrote:
>I think everyone finally got tired.
>So maybe this is a good time to ask about APRS Traffic. Not data traffic,
>but vehicle traffic.
>Is there anything more elaborate than Bob's recommendation of creating
>TRAFFC-x objects to help APRS users know about traffic on the road?
>>kinda dead here!  perhaps the storm has stopped.


Subject: Re: why kenwood d7
From: "Ron and Val Smith" <>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 06:10:10 +1000
X-Message-Number: 19

HI Allm
Yes, I also find the little D7 rig very useful.
I can use it as standalone, connected to the laptop, or connected to the
My only real complaint is the power connector which is on the side and
easily disconnects.


Subject: Re: Traffic and Weather Together on the Eights
From: "Spider" <>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 14:31:58 -0700
X-Message-Number: 20

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <>

>Jim... Can't respond since I don't know what firenet is, so it may, indeed,
>have value. I claim expertise in weather forecasting but nothing about fire
>warning. Is it rebroadcasting a continuous stream of warnings or such onto
>APRS? (20,000 obj per hour)?  Can you point me to a paper or ref?
>Bob Kirk

Bob, I invite you to visit  Http:// and check out
a little bit about FireNet.
I also invite you to connect to a firenet server and watch the full feed for
an hour or so, so you can see the difference.'s a lot of data and you might want to turn your labels off to
get a better picture.  My symbols are modified to give a better
representation of the data. port 10152 is a full feed port.  We
have three servers, one each in Arizona, Colorado, Washington
FireNet is another APRS network that is linked fully to the APRS-IS.  We use
the same type servers and the filters, etc. all work the same.  The
difference is that we have our own data on there....Wildland fires, Modis
Earth Observations for Fire Probability, RAWS weather stations from the BLM
and USDAFS, Earthquake data down to zero magnitude, the USGS collections of
water gaging stations, Buoys, Ships, C-Man Stations, world wide METAR
stations, some Iowa data,  some ALERT stations(mainly AZ and CO) and even
some Antarctica data(when it works!)  All of this as well as the full
APRS-IS can be seen in one place.  The newest addition is Dale's WxSvr sends
out the Fire Warnings and Watches along with anything he might be playing
with.  We do experiment over there at times and it's possible to see all
sorts of things you'll never understand!  We also have a non-Ham port so
people that are not hams can enjoy APRS.....and who knows...might get a few
new hams out of the deal!


Jim, WA6OFt


Subject: Alinco beacons
From: Tim Cwik <>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 17:33:37 -0400
X-Message-Number: 21

The Alinco DR-135 (and other TNCs) can send a beacon packet consisting of
the contents of the BTEXT field in the TNC. Is this packet considered an 
APRS packet and if so, which data format in the spec does it fit into?


Tim Cwik                            spamtrap:
Voice: 609-368-2482                         Fax: 609-368-3695


Subject: APRS Focus
From: "Brian  Riley (maillist)" <>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 17:44:23 -0400
X-Message-Number: 22

In one of the recent posts a ham, speaking of his day to day use of APRS
made statement along the lines of  'I only commute 15 minutes each way to
work so I don't bother using APRS during that time' ... Then I keep
remembering something Bob hammers on all the time, that APRS is was meant to
be a 'real time tactical display' and it set me to thinking. We, my wife,
W1SLR, and I use our D700s in our respective vehicles all the time. Before I
retired from the high school it was a 9 mile one way drive and she was
working in Burlington 22 miles one way. Now I am home a lot and she runs the
office at the local newspaper, 5 miles one way. But our use hasn't changed.
If she needs to get a hold of me or I her we can each check where the other
is easily and pick best means to contact (the joys of living in the
mountains and trying to use cell phones .. there are places where you cannot
use it at all,  where you can use it if you stop and get it just right,
where can use it, but an incoming call won't ring ... Etc!!!)

We live on the edge of a coule hundred thousand acres of wilderness and walk
in the woods a lot. My wife has begun taking the D7 and the Etrex with her
on some her walks and we are even using APRS to map some of the trails that
aren't on the map.

There was a lot 'schtuff' floating around here  the last few days and I
think that one thing people lost sight of was the purpose of APRS as a 'real
time tactical display' that in a non-emergency scenario is typified by the
kind of use to which dozens of us put APRS every day.  I would bet that if
there were some way for Steve to select mobile calls that show up say at
least three out of every seven days for a month and see if they are Kenwoods
he would find Bob's magic 90% number. Why? because its easy and simple to
do. I get in my truck turn of the 700 and hit Program Memory #1 (which is
N1BQ-8 'enroute' w/3 min beacon rate) or my wife hits Program Memory #5
(which is W1SLR-8 'enroute') when we park we hit PM2 and PM4 respectively
which sets 'out of service' and 20 minute beacon rate. Its no big deal and
after three years or so its a reflexive action.

 A couple of times a week I am out driving and I see a posit from my
father-in-law, KB1GXE down in Springfield, Mass show up on the display and I
will pop him off a message ... He gets a kick out of it. His main use from
APRS was driving back in forth between Springfield and Las Vegas where he
and my mother-in-law use to winter. But he was 81 last birthday so long
drives are over.

We are experiencing a small boom in APRS here in NW Vermont/NNY. We have had
a half dozen new stations and a new digi come on in the last few weeks, many
are up and down, but they are there enough so the local map display is
beginning to get interesting.

 cheers ... 73 de brian, n1bq, underhill center, vermont


Subject: Re: question about possession of an object.
From: "Spider" <>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 14:44:48 -0700
X-Message-Number: 23

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Henk de Groot" <>

>Compressed objects do no work on 1/3 of the users equipment, this is better
>because this works.


They might work in part without the user even knowing it.  UI-View, for
example, decodes them just fine....we just can not produce them...which is
a bummer when trying to plot a point.  You went way above my head on this
stuff, but was interesting to see.  Hope this dialog continues.



Subject: NWS
From: "deni" <>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 17:03:10 -0500
X-Message-Number: 24

Where can I find information on the NWS underlay server I have been reading
about on the sig?
Deni wb0tax


Subject: Re: question about possession of an object.
From: "AE5PL Lists" <>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 17:10:05 -0500
X-Message-Number: 25

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Henk de Groot
>Yes. If I understood the discussion of the last two weeks
>correctly, APRS extenstions should be compatible with
>existing hardware in order not to obsolete 38% of the APRS
>stations running today. Okay, when that is the context in
>which enhancements shall take place then you get these kind
>of proposals. Starting to use APRSSPEC complient compressed
>objects will not be visible by 38% of the stations, so in the
>APRS philosply, as pictured here the last few weeks, this
>should be discouraged.
>It makes no sense to change APRS practice in such way that
>people still have to upgrade their software since that was
>just the thing the APRS community complained about regarding

No, you missed the point about OpenTrac.  It is a separate protocol,
100% not compatible with APRS parsers.  Before everyone starts throwing
flames, this means that all APRS parsers do not know how to parse
OpenTrac packets.  Xastir uses a different parser to parse OpenTrac
packets so my statement is valid.  You have extended the arguments to
say "Because some people have not implemented a feature in APRS, it
should not be used."  I say that pressure should be brought to bear on
those authors to implement the full spec if we want to use those
features.  I also say that features should only be deprecated if they
are in error.  This is a standard rule-of-thumb in the software world
and should be considered as a rule-of-thumb here.  Just because a new
feature has more capability than an older one is not a reason to
deprecate the older one.  You deprecate the older one because the it
does not function as designed.  Compressed packets function as designed.
Items function as designed.  Some authors decided not to implement them.
This is not a reason to deprecate them.

>Okay, show them side by side, breaking at the ":" so they are
>;CompObj1 *010000z/4)TLP"!!x{.CCompressed object
>}CompObj1>AP:/010000z/4)TLP"!!x{.CCompressed object
>Yep, 3 bytes different, but the first doesn't work on 1/3 of
>the clients where the second does.

Also, you are assuming that the Kenwoods can handle multi-tiered
3rd-party headers.  Much software out there doesn't.  And, by doing it
this way, you may be excluding over 50% of the area served by APRS-IS
servers and IGates that don't support 3rd-party packets.  This last part
is changing, but like everything else is a slow process which is
unlikely to go to complete adherence.  Most servers do not currently
distinguish 3rd-party packet origins.  Most IGates do not distinguish
3rd-party origins.  Therefore, they must exclude 3rd-party packets to
prevent IS-RF-IS loops.

I understand your desire to make a work-around, but I am saying that
nothing is gained by this method and, in fact, the repercussions of this
are that many more people than that 38% of the mobiles may not see those
packets.  For that matter, I question whether those 38% will see the
packets because of the stacked 3rd-party headers.


Pete Loveall AE5PL


Subject: APRSCE Maps
From: "DG2JW" <>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 01:13:58 +0300
X-Message-Number: 26

Does anyone have APRSCE maps of Europe and Scandinavia I could download
from them. Most important would be Finland Sweden, Germany and Benelux.
Denmark would be a bonus point. :)

Best regards



Subject: RE: NWS
From: "Bill Diaz" <>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 17:19:47 -0500
X-Message-Number: 27

A new version of NWSGet is available at

This version has the ability to automatically force Ui-View to redraw and
reload the selected underlay file when NWSGet completes the download of NWS
radar images.

NWSGet now includes uirefresh.exe.  This was written and provided by Roger
Barker to permit 3rd party applications to redraw Ui-View when needed. Roger
has provided this in response to user requests to automatically update NWS
radar image underlays.  Thanks Roger.

Uirefresh.exe must be installed in your NWSGet directory in order to have
Ui-View redraw when new NWS radar image underlay files have been written to
your target directory.

Bill KC9XG

>-----Original Message-----
>Where can I find information on the NWS underlay server I have
>been reading
>about on the sig?
>Deni wb0tax


Subject: TX / GPS / TinyTrak
From: "Andrew Rich" <>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 08:20:32 +1000
X-Message-Number: 28

Why don't they work on a TX / GPS / TinyTrak type interface into a
commercial box ?

They would sell thousands.

Comments ?

Say selectable watts up to 50 watts ?

PC Programmable Freq


Subject: Re: TX / GPS / TinyTrak
From: "DG2JW" <>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 01:34:05 +0300
X-Message-Number: 29

I think that answer is simple. "They" would need to sell at least tens
of thousands or more to recoup the investment. :(
There are the Garmin Rino devices which would seemingly be easy to
modify for 70cm and they are nearly there already.

I suppose if Garmin received enough requests for such a device maybe
they would consider it. Its all about supply and demand I think
Its a great idea though.

Best regards


Subject: Atmel Butterfly - New personal HamHud?
From: "Bill Vodall - WA7NWP" <>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 16:07:59 -0700
X-Message-Number: 30

One of the Wetnet Saturday brunch bunch was showing off his butterfly...

Looks like an ideal addition to the TNC-X for a standalone display.  They're
only $xx at Digikey.

Bill - WA7NWP


Subject: RE: B2V path
From: "Cap Pennell" <>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 16:41:39 -0700
X-Message-Number: 31

I haven't seen a lot of trackers going across I-15 recently, but now I see
KC6BLF-14 heading E toward Las Vegas.  He's just past Baker now.  Two hops
is getting him seen in Vegas and elsewhere.  I know some parts of the B2V
course need the portable digi at Ibex Pass to make it in at all, and one in
Pahrump doesn't hurt during the race, but with N7ZEV-1 on Low Potosi passing
things on from there it works fine with only 2 hops.

I wan't at B2V this year, but last year I was an independent APRS observer
for the whole race and from my car acted as the digi at Ibex Pass for the
first several hours of the race because there was a typo in the settings of
the planned digi.  After that with all trackers past Ibex and many past
Pahrump, I drove in and setup the APRS display in the Finish NCS room
upstairs at the Silverton for the rest of the night until race end.

As to your point about digi-objects over hops or direct, Greg, I prefer
direct-only to preserve network capacity, despite less than universal
73, Cap KE6AFE

Service ]"7B}
KC6BLF-14>S4PVTP,WIDE4-2,qAR,W9IF-7:'-;l!*Hu/]"8"}On the Road Again!
KC6BLF-14>S4QPPU,WIDE4-3,qAo,KF6ECO:'-7J RIu/]"9q}On the Road Again!
Service ]"=C}
KC6BLF-14>S4RPTP,WIDE4-3,qAo,KF6ECO:'-7`nzlu/]"@k}On the Road Again!
KC6BLF-14>S4RTPU,WIDE4-2,qAO,WX6SGX:'-4!H=u/]"@G}On the Road Again!
KC6BLF-14>S4RXRR,WIDE4-2,qAo,KF6ECO:'-0g!>W}On the Road Again!
KC6BLF-14>S4SRYV,WIDE4-3,qAo,KF6ECO:'--Z!>Qu/]"=)}On the Road Again!
KC6BLF-14>S4SWRT,WIDE4-2,qAo,KE7XO-6:'-*,!4=u/]">M}On the Road Again!
KC6BLF-14>S4UUTV,WIDE4-2,qAr,AA5QJ-1:',H;!4hu/]":0}On the Road Again!
KC6BLF-14>S5RRRQ,WIDE4-2,qAr,AA5QJ-1:'+R9oRau/]"=-}On the Road Again!

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Greg Kulosa []
>>>In my example of Baker to Vegas, we need to use 3 Digi's to get a
>>>packet from the start line to Netcontrol in Vegas.
>>No, 2 digi hops is plenty for B2V rf _and_ inet purposes.  WIDE2-2 alone
>>works fine there and most of the Western US (at least).  Those users
>>routinely exceeding two digi hops (and/or transmitting too
>often) are not
>>the best role models for our VHF network, nor demonstrating the
>best amateur
>Really?  Can you show me the 2 Digi's that will get a packet from
>Baker, CA into Las Vegas, NV?  (An RF-only path, not including the
>Internet).  I know the terrain, and I imagine it would be tough
>(lots of tall mountain ranges).
>Besides, I was making a general point about having the new
>Digi-maintained-object thingy support a large geographical network where
>maybe you need more than one Digi to cover the area involved.
>If the Digi only re-transmits the object DIRECT, then every
>participant may not see it, if the area is large, and you can't
>hear that particular Digi directly.
>Cap, were you at B2V this year?  What team do you support?
>Greg Kulosa


Subject: PocketAPRS
From: "Spider" <>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 17:04:21 -0700
X-Message-Number: 32

Looking at the PocketAPRS page, it looks like it's waking up!  Anyone
involved with that!



Subject: APRS Messages to Instant Message bridge ?
From: "William McKeehan" <>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 21:23:29 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 33

Has anyone considered a bridge between APRS and some Instant Message

William McKeehan


Subject: Re: APRS Messages to Instant Message bridge ?
From: Danny <>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 21:35:03 -0400
X-Message-Number: 34

I have been playing with IRC > APRS a little.  I wrote a few mIRC scripts
to do the dirty work, but never polished them.



Subject: Re: question about possession of an object.
From: "Tom Richmond" <>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 18:37:55 -0700
X-Message-Number: 35

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "KC2MMi" <>

><NWS folks is that they don't want people moving
>"their" funnel clouds.  How can we lock an object so that only one station
>can own it?>
> Technically, probably extremely difficult unless you do an end run around
>the issue of identifying the sender. Simply require all objects to be
>accompanied by the call sign of their owner. Now, if someone else moves
>it--without changing the ID, which would also change the object--they've
>committed identity theft and impersonation. People might refrain from doing
>that, since everyone knows hams would never be so discourteous.
> Change the spec, encourage compliant behavior, and at least come of the
>people will follow it.
>But trying to authenticate owners? On a system that accepts input from all
>comers? I don't think that could be done without major changes.


Subject: Re: APRS Messages to Instant Message bridge ?
From: Steve Dimse <>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 22:16:01 -0400
X-Message-Number: 36

On 6/12/04 at 9:23 PM William McKeehan <> sent:

>Has anyone considered a bridge between APRS and some Instant Message clients?

NY4I's ICQServe was a fully functional gateway between APRS and ICQ, worked
great. You had to register, but once approved you could send messages. The
thing is, any APRS client connected to the internet could also send
messages, there wasn't really anything unobtainable in other ways, guess it
died from disuse...I searched and couldn't find any links that still

Ever feel like everything's been done ;-)

Steve K4HG


Subject: Re: APRS Messages to Instant Message bridge ?
From: Danny <>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 23:16:02 -0400
X-Message-Number: 37

One of the reasons I stopped messing around with the IRC to APRS stuff.
Other than the "Hey, I made it work" factor, it really wasn't practical,
already having a client connected to APRS-IS anyway.



Subject: Rino stuff
From: Earl Needham <>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 21:41:44 -0700
X-Message-Number: 38

At 09:19 AM 6/10/2004, Robert Bruninga wrote:
>Same here.  And I had been put in contact with a real
>mole (high in the ogrganization) who was also a HAM
>and he said something to this effect:
>1) We are selling RINO's and GPS's by the millions.
>2) Why would we want to invest a million $ to re-tool
>  and make a unique radio that only 0.005 of the
>  population could use?
>Show us the business model that makes sense.
>We dont see it.   HAMS can use the RINO with
>no restrictions.  WHy make a unique product
>Face it guys, we are small potatoes.

Uh -- is there possibly a way to convert the Rino to, say, 440 MHz?


Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico  DM84jk
SETI@Home:  11610WU/7.54yrs



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