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To  : APRDIG@WW

Subject: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re: Re[2]: Re: Trains, planes and APRS
automobiles. was: Kenwood APRS radio
From: Danny <danny@messano.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:30:46 -0400
X-Message-Number: 27

Hmm.. I havent heard of that in years.. Most dialup providers I have seen
really dont care, as long as they get their checks on time.

I remember at one time having p*ssing contests with my friends over who had
better dialup service. I was getting 52000 connects ever time, but lost
connection after 4 to 5 days. I had a buddy who couldnt get anything over
28800 and had uptimes of 10 to 15 days. This was back in the Windoze 98
days when just keeping 98 running for that long was a miracle.

Danny
KE4RAP

Tuesday, June 15, 2004, 3:19:43 PM, you wrote:

DB> Most Dial-up providers strongly suggest you don't sit on the line 24 hours
DB> a day. :)

DB> --Droo, K1XVM

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Re[2]: Re: Trains, planes and APRS automobiles. was: Kenwood APRS
radio
From: "Eric H. Christensen" <kf4otn@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:34:18 -0400
X-Message-Number: 28

Because during Hurricane Isabel, not only did we not have high speed
internet but we didn't have telephones, either (including cell phones). The
only way in or out was by HF and VHF/UHF radios.

73s,
Eric KF4OTN
kf4otn@amsat.org

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: Re[2]: Re: Re[2]: Re: Trains, planes and APRS automobiles. was:
Kenwood APRS radio
From: Danny <danny@messano.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:44:55 -0400
X-Message-Number: 29

Backbones are limited range, limited bandwidth, require a tower, equipment,
etc.

Just about ANYONE can set up an IGATE in a matter of minutes.

Maybe I am missing something, but the goal that I see of APRS backbones is
piping data from one Local LAN to another.. Arent we doing that cheaper,
and with more control of the process, using APRS-IS?

I work in Engineering.. I know what it's like to live and die by your
service provider. It's not fun. I have seen occasions where I lost a T1 to
lightning strike in an isolated T-Storm. I have seen ice storms that took
out ever utility BUT my T1s. Matter of fact, that same ice storm killed my
power and phone at home, and another 80,000 in the area, but the few times
I turned on my UPS and powered up my cable modem, I was able to check
e-mail with my laptop no problem. It's all luck of the draw. (I also had 2
radio stations with generators lose power for 2 days, eventually running
out of fuel and going down, and had yet another site with NO generator that
never blinked.. Go figure.)

If we assume EVERYTHING will fail, we may as well settle on the fact that
only an HF rig running on batteries is reliable and everything else is
worthless. There is a fine line between `informed' and `overly paranoid'.

Danny
KE4RAP 

Tuesday, June 15, 2004, 2:38:32 PM, you wrote:

WGH> Redundancy - what is wrong with both igates and backbones?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re: Re[2]: Re: Trains, planes and APRS
automobiles. was: Kenwood APRS radio
From: Drew Baxter <droobie@maine.rr.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:49:05 -0400
X-Message-Number: 30

The best modems for those kinds of games are US Robotics. I was using USR
Courier and Sportsters here, would have link uptimes with Harvardnet in the 
tune of 5-10 days at 48000.

However - Carriers such as Earthlink will disconnect you every 24 linked 
hours and force you to reconnect. They also explicitly define that it's
not an 'always on' service, and that if you're idle you will be booted, 
could lose your account, etc.

According to the 2924 switch, I'm seeing peaks around 4Kbyte/s right now on 
the Sparc. Sometimes those peaks are as high as 10Kbyte/s. My regional
footprint is 250 mile radius from my position. So bandwidth-wise it's doable.

But, I'd also have to buy another phone line and whatnot. "Keep it cheap"
isn't so cheap at 25 bucks a month to Verizon.

I think things work right here in Maine. The other Igate in this general
area is about 90 miles away and south of me, so they're very likely to stay 
up even if we go down for whatever reason.

--Droo, K1XVM

At 03:30 PM 6/15/2004, Danny wrote:
>Hmm.. I havent heard of that in years.. Most dialup providers I have seen
>really dont care, as long as they get their checks on time.
>
>I remember at one time having p*ssing contests with my friends over who
>had better dialup service. I was getting 52000 connects ever time, but
>lost connection after 4 to 5 days. I had a buddy who couldnt get anything
>over 28800 and had uptimes of 10 to 15 days. This was back in the Windoze
>98 days when just keeping 98 running for that long was a miracle.
>
>Danny
>KE4RAP

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re: Re[2]: Re: Trains, planes and APRS automobiles.
was: Kenwood APRS radio
From: David Rush <david@davidarush.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 13:53:13 -0600
X-Message-Number: 31

Danny wrote:

>Theres no one else that COULD run an IGATE? With there being internet in
>more homes than cable TV now, i'd be inclined to think there are a lot more
>out there with connectivity than you think.
>
>I'm not so sure you are underestimating the survivability of the phone
>system. Grantid, relying on a cable or DSL provider can be a mixed bag.
>What about dialup? With a dialup IGATE you now have at least a 28.8k backbone.

I'd say chances are significantly high that several IGATEs or potential
IGATEs in a given geographic area could all be affected by the same
nasty event. If your local telco craps out, there's a good chance it
would hose everything for everybody, given that both your DSL and your
cable modem provider probably use telco lines to connect to the rest of
the world.

As fragile as our ham radio rag-tag networks can be, they're not
dependent on the telco, and if something gets broken there's a good
chance we can get off our rears and at least try to fix it, rather than
sit around on our hands waiting for the local telco to fix things. And I
don't expect that residential DSL service will be their highest priority.

But of course having both is best!

David, ky7dr

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re: Re[2]: Re: Trains, planes and APR S automobiles.
was: Kenwood APRS radio
From: "Eric H. Christensen" <kf4otn@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:49:38 -0400
X-Message-Number: 32

I'm going to have to concur with Scott, here. We have one I-Gate serving a
rather large area with two or more digis in the area. Like I said, during
Hurricane Isabel, we did not have any kind of wired communication because
all the infrastructure. Even the "wireless phones" were down because they
turn into wired phones at some point. We see similar things during and
after most hurricanes over here in Eastern North Carolina.

Again, dialup is not an option. I like what the Europeans are doing with
TCP/IP over their RF backbones. Pretty slick.

Remember, you can't control what you outsource... By keeping the hardware
and the service within the ranks of Amateur Radio, we are in better control!

73s,
Eric KF4OTN
kf4otn@amsat.org

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: Alinco beacons
From: "Eric H. Christensen" <kf4otn@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:53:05 -0400
X-Message-Number: 33

Actually, using "BEACON" hurts us that are using the TOCALLs (or destination
addresses) to find out what kind of systems are out there. Similar results
occur when folks use "APRS". There should be a destination address for
everything out there on the planet without using BEACON or APRS.

There is a prefix to the positions that tells people if that station has
messaging capabilities...

73s,
Eric KF4OTN
kf4otn@amsat.org

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Re[2]: Re: Re[2]: Re: Trains, planes and APRS automobiles. was:
Kenwood APRS radio
From: Danny <danny@messano.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:58:03 -0400
X-Message-Number: 34

SD> Remember almost any home APRS user can become an IGate with the check of a
box.
SD> If there aren't 4 or 5 home users within the digi range, the odds are there
SD> isn't going to be a lot of call for APRS service after a disater anyway.

Good point.. 

SD> Of course, the ultimate answer is satellite Internet service. FEMA has
purchased
SD> a large number of portable units for this purpose, and any APRS user that
SD> already has satellite internet access need only provide good backup power to
SD> ensure am IGate can remain up after a disaster. This option provides greater
SD> reliability than any RF network solution could...

My friend in EMA has been looking at some of satellite stuff as well for
his new mobile command post. I got him convinced to put an 802.11b access
point on the list too, so that when hes got the command post hot and I show
up with my laptop, I can drop in my wireless card, connect my HT, and now
have a portable IGATE.

Danny
KE4RAP

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re[2]: Re: Re[2]: Re: Trains, planes and APRS automobiles. was:
Kenwood APRS radio
From: Danny <danny@messano.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:07:14 -0400
X-Message-Number: 35

Was there ANYONE within range of your digi or a few RELAY home-station hops
away that had even a dialup connection?

Tuesday, June 15, 2004, 3:34:18 PM, you wrote:

EHC> Because during Hurricane Isabel, not only did we not have high speed
EHC> internet but we didn't have telephones, either (including cell phones). The
EHC> only way in or out was by HF and VHF/UHF radios.

EHC> 73s,
EHC> Eric KF4OTN
EHC> kf4otn@amsat.org

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Re[2]: Re: Re[2]: Re: Trains, planes and APRS automobiles. was:
Kenwood APRS radio
From: Danny <danny@messano.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:13:45 -0400
X-Message-Number: 36

I really feel that any work should be focused on improving the user ports
and leave the backboning to the internet and APRS-IS...

Again, that is not `Ham Radio', but APRS has been FAR more than just `Ham
Radio' for a while now. Thanks to Steve and the internet, we have a nice
high speed backbone already, even a SLOW dialup is HIGH speed in Amateur
Radio terms!

I think one of the biggest problems with 144.39 is that everyone wants to
be seen for mileeeeees and mileeeeeees.. so they use ridiculous paths and
kill the network for mileeeeees and mileeeees. Drop a few IGATES around and
put them within ONE hop of APRS-IS and THE WORLD. If they're buddy needs to
see them on RF 2 states away, get the local IGATE operator in the buddies
area to gate the other one.

I think all an APRS RF backbone will do is allow people to QRM everyone
else, but with the aid of a 9600 baud link between LANs. IGATES and APRS-IS
should be used for distribution, not unpolicable LOW bandwidth backbone
links.

Danny
KE4RAP

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re[3]: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re: Re[2]: Re: Trains, planes and APRS
automobiles. was: Kenwood APRS radio
From: Danny <danny@messano.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:19:24 -0400
X-Message-Number: 37

Tuesday, June 15, 2004, 3:49:05 PM, you wrote:

DB> The best modems for those kinds of games are US Robotics. I was using USR
DB> Courier and Sportsters here, would have link uptimes with Harvardnet in the
DB> tune of 5-10 days at 48000.

USR was GOOD stuff at one time.. Not so much since 3COM bought em. I still
have some 33.6 modems that are rock solid.

DB> However - Carriers such as Earthlink will disconnect you every 24 linked
DB> hours and force you to reconnect. They also explicitly define that it's
DB> not an 'always on' service, and that if you're idle you will be booted,
DB> could lose your account, etc.

Before the dot com bubble burst and every tom, dick, and harry had a free
internet service, I ran a program called `Stay Connected' that would send
out pings every so often to keep you connected to the freebies. I'm sure I
am one of the reasons they finally quit..

Of course, if you were connected to APRS-IS, you wouldnt see much idle
time. ;)

DB> But, I'd also have to buy another phone line and whatnot. "Keep it cheap"
DB> isn't so cheap at 25 bucks a month to Verizon.

Well, if you have it, use it.. If you dont, see who CAN do it. Not everyone
has the dialup line, DSL, or Cable to make it work. Just a matter of
gathering your resources.

Danny
KE4RAP

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Re[2]: Re: Re[2]: Re: Trains, planes and APRS automobiles. was:
Kenwood APRS radio
From: Drew Baxter <droobie@maine.rr.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:21:14 -0400
X-Message-Number: 38

I wasn't necessarily talking about JUST APRS here. I was talking about
having a next generation high speed network that would allow for all sorts 
of experimentation and development to be done.. The 220 is just sitting 
there and I suspect we could get an NPRM together to get Spread Spectrum 
allowance down into the 1.25m from the 70cm where it is now. With the
right protocol, anythings possible, and then our bandwidth needs would be 
cured for quite some time.

We couldn't easily do this on any of the lower bands except for the 220, 
because there is traffic. Meanwhile we could take a chunk of the 220 and
probably pull such a thing off.

Again, I'm not talking JUST backbone. I'm talking an all-inclusive network 
that could have several things going on at once.

I do agree that people use excessive paths and I think they should be 
schooled on the proper methods to exist on the network. But in the case of
mobiles, the best way to get out is still RELAY,WIDE2-2 or sometimes 
WIDE3-3 here. I have enough problems with other people on the road to not
want to be one of those ones trying to mess with the path while driving 
through a well APRS'd town :)

--Droo, K1XVM

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: Re[3]: Re: Trains, planes and APRS automobiles. was: Kenwood APRS
radio
From: "Julian White" <dg2jw@privateasylum.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 23:27:36 +0300
X-Message-Number: 39

If you search findu for oh8gej-11 you'll see that along our club station,
we are running aprs @ 9k6 on 433.775. The kenwood works well enough at 9k6.

Actually, exept for propagation studies, there is no need to synch usa and
europe with a common frequency but it would be nice.

Best regards
Julian
Oh8gej-11

-----Original Message-----
From: "Danny"<danny@messano.net>

Well, considering that we are running at 1200 baud, dreaming about 19.2k or
even 56k may be `overdreaming'.

I think 9600 would be a VAST improvement.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re: Re[2]: Re: Trains, planes and APR S
automobiles. was: Kenwood APRS radio
From: Danny <danny@messano.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:29:12 -0400
X-Message-Number: 40

Tuesday, June 15, 2004, 3:49:38 PM, you wrote:

EHC> I'm going to have to concur with Scott, here. We have one I-Gate serving a
EHC> rather large area with two or more digis in the area. Like I said, during
EHC> Hurricane Isabel, we did not have any kind of wired communication because
EHC> all the infrastructure. Even the "wireless phones" were down because they
EHC> turn into wired phones at some point. We see similar things during and
EHC> after most hurricanes over here in Eastern North Carolina.

How would you have been better off with a high speed APRS RF backbone? 

EHC> Remember, you can't control what you outsource... By keeping the hardware
EHC> and the service within the ranks of Amateur Radio, we are in better
control!
But no better off.. We are still at the mercy of mother nature, just like
everyone else.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re[2]: Re: Trains, planes and APRS automobiles. was: Kenwood APRS radio
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 13:28:34 -0700
X-Message-Number: 41

>I'm not so sure you are underestimating the survivability of the phone
>system. Grantid, relying on a cable or DSL provider can be a mixed bag.
>What about dialup? With a dialup IGATE you now have at least a 28.8k
>backbone.

I don't know if this is still the case, but at one point a large portion of
the fiber optic cables for all voice and data to this area ran underneath a
single highway bridge. Several years ago something happened to that link
and multiple cities were largely without long distance service.

Yes, you can attain a certain amount of redundancy, I'm just saying we
shouldn't rely on commercial Internet providers. When you have some major
event that takes out critical links in places, power in others, and disrupts
network load all over, you're bound to have problems.

Most of the cell towers stayed up during that quake, too, but I couldn't
place a call for an hour or so, presumably due to the load.

Dialup is fine as long as you've got a modem bank to dial into. And I've
seen cases after moderate quakes where you'd have to wait 30 seconds to get
dialtone even though there's no actual damage to the system, again thanks to
the load.

And really, if we want to provide communications in an emergency, we'd
better be able to offer something besides commercial comms that everyone's
got already.

Scott
N1VG

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Re[2]: Re: Re[2]: Re: Trains, planes and APRS automobiles. was:
Kenwood APRS radio
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 13:37:51 -0700
X-Message-Number: 42

>Was there ANYONE within range of your digi or a few RELAY home-station
hops away that had even a dialup connection?

If there is, that's great, but remember - if they haven't prepared for it,
it might take a little bit to set up, and during hurricanes and earthquakes
people are often preoccupied with things besides computers. =]

Scott
N1VG

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Re[2]: Re: Trains, planes and APRS automobiles. was: Kenwood APRS
radio
From: "Gregg G. Wonderly" <gregg@skymaster.cytetech.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:36:42 -0500
X-Message-Number: 43

>Just cranking up the speed isn't going to help that much, though. I'd like
>to see 9.6k used to transmit wider APRS streams for those clients that can
>handle it, but I can't see any real advantage to running 9.6k for mobile
>trackers. The transmission time isn't significantly less, and it's more
>susceptible to errors.

My vote is still for a single 6khz wide SSB channel with PSK (not 31, but 
higher speed) used within that channel. We have about 10 data channels, and 2
command and control channels with simultaneous transmittion being the norm.
The master repeaters would listen on one of the control channels for 
allocation requests. They would then dole out TDMA channels for each station.
 The request would include transmit timing and channel. A station could
request 20sec intervals, but if there was too much traffic, it might receive 2 
min intervals for example.

This would be completely new and different equipment. SSB costs more, and
there would have to be an occasional idle tone from the repeater to allow the 
radios to retune and resync. But, in the end, we'd have much more bandwidth
with a lot smarter system that would deliver some amazing opportunities.

But, I digress...
-----
gregg@cytetech.com (Cyte Technologies Inc)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re: Re[2]: Re: Trains, planes and APRS automobiles.
was: Kenwood APRS radio
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 13:35:37 -0700
X-Message-Number: 44

>As fragile as our ham radio rag-tag networks can be, they're not
>dependent on the telco, and if something gets broken there's a good
>chance we can get off our rears and at least try to fix it, rather than
>sit around on our hands waiting for the local telco to fix things. And I

THAT is the big difference - being able to fix it. You can rig up an
emergency TV-twinlead J-pole held up with tie-wraps and thumbtacks, swap out
a bad radio with a spare mobile, or whatever. 2-meter packet is a pretty
forgiving and hackable technology.

Sure, use Internet bandwidth when you've got it. But don't count on it
being there when you need it...

Scott
N1VG

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: VKMAIL
From: "sv1uy" <sv1uy@ham.depa.gr>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 23:40:40 +0300
X-Message-Number: 45

Hi all,

I remember a few months ago a guy announced that he had developed a nice
program called VKMAIL and this one could run in Linux for delivering e-mail
to Internet recipients, sent from portable APRS systems.

I have searched high and low on the web and found no trace of it. Has
anyone got any idea as to where I can find it? Or perhaps where can I find
something similar that runs in Linux and does the same job? I have tried
Maiko's JNOSaprs in my LINUX box but it crashes when it receives an SMS
directed to EMAIL.

Any info would be much appreciated.

---
73 de Demetre SV1UY
e-mail sv1uy@ham.depa.gr
http://sv1uy.webhop.org
http://www.athnet.ampr.org/~sv1uy
http://www.qsl.net/sv1uy

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re[3]: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re: Re[2]: Re: Trains, planes and APRS
automobiles. was: Kenwood APRS radio
From: Drew Baxter <droobie@maine.rr.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:42:13 -0400
X-Message-Number: 46

At 04:19 PM 6/15/2004, Danny wrote:

>USR was GOOD stuff at one time.. Not so much since 3COM bought em. I
>still have some 33.6 modems that are rock solid.

If you buy the 3com/USR hardware modems, they're still as good. Most
people foolishly buy Winmodems (Host Signal Processing) garbage, though, 
because 3com sells mostly that. I believe the USR5695 is the token PCI
hardware modem for the job.

>Before the dot com bubble burst and every tom, dick, and harry had a free 
>internet service, I ran a program called 'Stay Connected" that would send 
>out pings every so often to keep you connected to the freebies. I'm sure
>I am one of the reasons they finally quit..

Earthlink kicks you off every 24 hours regardless of activity. Some other
carriers do use idle timers instead, though.

>Well, if you have it, use it.. If you dont, see who CAN do it. Not
>everyone has the dialup line, DSL, or Cable to make it work. Just a
>matter of gathering your resources.

I agree, but in most cases the people who do have it, are providing 
something back to the network. Some people just don't have a spare
computer kicking around, or a high speed Internet line.. Or they're in a
bowl terrain-wise so they can't get too far without a massive tower.

Since Iper (an ongoing network project here) came on-line, we roll the link 
over to a dialup connection so our network resources can stay active if the 
DSL goes down. The IGATE, is one of those things that is moved over to
dialup as well. Because of having distance microwave channels, this entire
network can be pushed through that to other DSL carriers that have 
different lines in the area.

I do have redundancy here, but only because the resources are available to 
do it. I can't expect that people who don't have it available are going to
invest in it. By the same token, those of us who do have access to such
things, are probably (hopefully) already making use of it.


I do think that a next-generation spread spectrum data network on an 
underdeveloped band would be a giant leap forward to digital packet on 
Amateur Radio. Encoding methods such as OFDM permit data to be sent across
a band without the knowledge of the previous packet of data. Using
protocols such as TCP-IP would permit for a robust communications and 
network layer. The sky is the limit after that, and we'd not have to
directly affect our existing infrastructures (such as APRS and the 
APRS-IS). We could find ways to reinvent APRS by creating virtual
backbones using the new network.

I'm thinking bigger than the scope of APRS.

--Droo, K1XVM 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re: Re[2]: Re: Trains, planes and APRS automobiles.
was: Kenwood APRS radio
From: Danny <danny@messano.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:43:49 -0400
X-Message-Number: 47

I still have yet to see where an APRS RF backbone would be of benefit. In
the event an area loses telco and such for a radius of X number miles, you
could digi hop or 2 to an area that has access and be linked right back
into APRS-IS.

Another issue that I dont see being addressed is bandwidth. Anyone
calculated what it would take to backup even PARTS of APRS-IS with RF?

I think we have seen demonstrated that APRS paths of 5 or 7 hops will work.
NO, I AM NOT ADVOCATING IT!!! My point is, you could certainly digi hop 2
or 3 times to a local LAN with APRS-IS access easily in the event your area
is so heavily damaged that you lose all your local IGATES.

I think linking areas with 9600 backbones is a recipe for disaster. If you
make that bandwidth available, someone will find a way to saturate it to
the point of it being unusable. When your local IGATE goes down, your
attempts to route over your backbone will fail because every joe in a 5
state radius that couldnt get 5 states away because eventually his 1200
baud hopping on 144.39 would fail, will be digi'ing all over your backbone.
It really wont be any better than trying to make a few hops at 1200 baud,
especially if half the stations on the air have been taken down from the
power loss.

Danny
KE4RAP

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Re[2]: Re: Trains, planes and APRS automobiles. was: Kenwood APRS
radio
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 13:44:35 -0700
X-Message-Number: 48

>My vote is still for a single 6khz wide SSB channel with PSK (not 31, but
>higher speed) used within that channel. We have about 10 data channels, and 2
>command and control channels with simultaneous transmittion being the norm.
>The master repeaters would listen on one of the control channels for
>allocation requests. They would then dole out TDMA channels for each station.
> The request would include transmit timing and channel. A station could
>request 20sec intervals, but if there was too much traffic, it might receive 2
>min intervals for example.

That would certainly be cool. Scrounging up SSB equipment is the hard part,
of course. Never found any of it cheap. I also worry about how much DSP
it's going to take to extract the control signals for trackers.

Scott
N1VG

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re: Re[2]: Re: Trains, planes and APRS automobiles. was:
Kenwood APRS radio
From: Danny <danny@messano.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:48:37 -0400
X-Message-Number: 49

Well, thats the whole point of being prepared.

We make jump bags and such that handle all of our radio `stuff', why not
some planning for backup IGATES as well?

You could drop a copy of javAPRSsrvr with javAPRSigate on a floppy with
AGWPE, and you are within minutes of establishing an IGATE. For a non-ham
location, have an HT with a sound card interface ready.

Danny
KE4RAP

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Subject: RE: Re[2]: Re: Re[2]: Re: Trains, planes and APRS autom obiles. was:
Kenwood APRS radio
From: "Eric H. Christensen" <kf4otn@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:45:48 -0400
X-Message-Number: 50

Not during this event... The nearest IGATE was about 120+ miles away...

73s,
Eric KF4OTN
kf4otn@amsat.org

-----Original Message-----
From: Danny [mailto:danny@messano.net] 

Was there ANYONE within range of your digi or a few RELAY home-station hops
away that had even a dialup connection?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re[4]: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re: Re[2]: Re: Trains, planes and APRS
automobiles. was: Kenwood APRS radio
From: Danny <danny@messano.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 17:05:38 -0400
X-Message-Number: 51

DB> I agree, but in most cases the people who do have it, are providing
DB> something back to the network. Some people just don't have a spare
DB> computer kicking around, or a high speed Internet line.. Or they're in a
DB> bowl terrain-wise so they can't get too far without a massive tower.

Well, thats what DIGIS are for. You still need to access a tower site if
your backbone is gonna work. Why create a new pipe on RF when we are a
couple hops from the HIGH speed internet (remember that even DIALUP is high
speed compared to what we have).

It doesnt take an EXTRA computer. You can set up any existing APRS station
as an IGATE with just a dialup connection.

DB> I do think that a next-generation spread spectrum data network on an
DB> underdeveloped band would be a giant leap forward to digital packet on
DB> Amateur Radio. Encoding methods such as OFDM permit data to be sent across
DB> a band without the knowledge of the previous packet of data. Using
DB> protocols such as TCP-IP would permit for a robust communications and
DB> network layer. The sky is the limit after that, and we'd not have to
DB> directly affect our existing infrastructures (such as APRS and the
DB> APRS-IS). We could find ways to reinvent APRS by creating virtual
DB> backbones using the new network.

I just dont understand why you wanna replace APRS-IS with an RF backbone.
We have greater bandwidth accessible to us that most of us (everyone on
this sig has at least dialup access) are ALREADY paying for.

The backboning of APRS is DONE.. Steve invented it, Pete and Dale made
building the infrastructure accessible to anyone with a linux or windows
PC. We are much better off investing our time in improving the user ports
and making APRS-IS accessible to anyone, even during an emergency.

DB> I'm thinking bigger than the scope of APRS.

Seems to me like you are trying to recreate the entire internet using RF.
Good luck.

Danny
KE4RAP

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