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ZL3AI  > APRDIG   02.07.04 09:27l 350 Lines 12438 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Subj: TAPR Digest, Jun 28, 2/2
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To  : APRDIG@WW

Subject: Re: Unproto Paths for Digipeaters
From: "Christensen, Eric" <CHRISTENSENE@MAIL.ECU.EDU>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 19:36:13 -0400
X-Message-Number: 22

I agree fully...  I just don't see the NEED of seeing a digi from three hops
away.  Maybe one hop at the most...

Per your other email, I have mine setup to just send a very short KF4OTN/R
text every 9.5 minutes direct so it is actually shorter than the position
and won't take up bandwidth on the IS, etc.  

73s,
Eric KF4OTN
kf4otn@amsat.org

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: APRS WX format
From: "Spider" <spider@rivcom.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 16:41:40 -0700
X-Message-Number: 23

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Curt, WE7U" <archer@eskimo.com>

>On Mon, 28 Jun 2004, Robert Bruninga wrote:
>
>>The below email asks about bringing APRS weather
>>reporting standards in line with METAR standards.
>>I would be willing to address this if the APRS
>>WX gurus can reach consensus:

I think you would have to address any changes with the weather station
manufacturers because that is what we are stuck with for the most part.

Jim, WA6OFT

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Unproto Paths for Digipeaters
From: Earl Needham <needhame1@plateautel.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 17:51:09 -0700
X-Message-Number: 24

At 02:36 PM 6/28/2004, Christensen, Eric wrote:
>Can anyone give me a good reason for a digipeater to use over a single hop
>in its' unproto path?

Yeah, sure.  See:

http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?call=MELROZ
http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?call=BLKWTR
http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?call=DUNLAP

And other isolated New Mexico areas.  If my IGATE is shut off, then these
digis are just not visible to anybody else.

7 3
Earl

Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico  DM84jk
SETI@Home:  11637WU/7.55yrs

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Unproto Paths for Digipeaters
From: "Christensen, Eric" <CHRISTENSENE@MAIL.ECU.EDU>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 20:19:55 -0400
X-Message-Number: 25

But why do you need to see them?  Just to say they are there?  Digipeaters
are not like repeaters...  You don't need to switch frequencies or change
protocols (generally) between digis.  So there isn't a need to see these
digipeaters unless you are using a beam to point at them or if you are
looking for coverage.  But even with one hop, you will know the next
coverage area...

73s,
Eric KF4OTN
kf4otn@amsat.org

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Unproto Paths for Digipeaters
From: Earl Needham <needhame1@plateautel.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 19:08:53 -0700
X-Message-Number: 26

At 05:19 PM 6/28/2004, Christensen, Eric wrote:
>But why do you need to see them?  Just to say they are there?  Digipeaters
>are not like repeaters...  You don't need to switch frequencies or change
>protocols (generally) between digis.  So there isn't a need to see these
>digipeaters unless you are using a beam to point at them or if you are
>looking for coverage.  But even with one hop, you will know the next
>coverage area...

Same argument could be made for home stations, but the fact is that I like
to see what's available.

7 3
Earl

Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico  DM84jk
SETI@Home:  11637WU/7.55yrs

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Unproto Paths for Digipeaters
From: "Christensen, Eric" <CHRISTENSENE@MAIL.ECU.EDU>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 21:19:45 -0400
X-Message-Number: 27

I agree!  At least home stations have the ability of having someone at the
keyboard to talk to.  But what good is a station that just sits there
transmitting for no apparent reason other than to say "I'm here" (that goes
for home stations that just sit there too)?

73s,
Eric KF4OTN
kf4otn@amsat.org

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Best TinyTrak, settings
From: "TJ Hvasta" <skygodtj@cableaz.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 20:34:53
X-Message-Number: 28

Hello all,

I just got a couple of TinyTrak3's,(one TT3, one Pocket/TinyTrak3) and the 
doc's don't address what are the best settings for path... RELAY, WIDE, 
WIDEx-x, etc...  One TT will be hooked up to an HT, the 
other(PocketTracker), just a transmitter.  Is anyone here using these?  
What're the best settings.

Thanks,

TJ, NS2E

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Unproto Paths for Digipeaters
From: Robbie - WA9INF <mwrobertson@comcast.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 20:36:03 -0500
X-Message-Number: 29

Eric,

I know what you are trying to say, however, for me, if I came down and 
saw that no stations were on my map save for a few mobiles, I wouldn't 
waste my time running the PC 24/7 with an aprs client showing a blank 
map, <g> Maybe even take down the weather station...

There are many more issues than static symbols on my map. If there were 
so many stations in a given area just beaconing away that mobiles and 
events couldn't get through, then I think we would need to address 
static stations beaconing at all.. MHO

Robbie

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Unproto Paths for Digipeaters
From: Randy Allen <ka0azs@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 21:52:07 -0400
X-Message-Number: 30

One advantage of ensuring that Digi's can hit an I-Gate with at least 
occasional position packets is quasi-vicinity tracking via FIND-U.

Last year, my wife (licensed ham) drove to Florida with a tracker 
(TinyTrak) in her vehicle.  Half way down there, the GPS came 
disconnected and her icon joined the APRS convention in the Atlantic 
Ocean off Ghana.

However, by watching the the path on Find-u, and looking up the DIGI's 
in the path, I could get a reasonable idea of where she was along her 
route (within a county or 2).  Had the DIGI's involved not been 
beaconing position with enough of a path to hit an I-Gate, that would 
not have been possible.  I would still see the path's, but without 
positions, would not have been able to see where they were located (and 
yes I could have plugged the callsigns into QRZ, but that would have 
told me only where the licensee lived, not where their digi(s) where 
located)

Perhaps a limited application, but one I found useful.

73

-- 
Randy Allen, KAĜAZS
EC, Montgomery CO Ohio
OH Dist. 3 ARES Web Page:
http://www.ohd3ares.org

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Unproto Paths for Digipeaters
From: "Herb Gerhardt" <hgerhardt@wavecable.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 18:53:32 -0700
X-Message-Number: 31

As I have stated before, the situations on Paths and timing may have to be
different in different areas of the country.  We all have different terrain
and different APRS user and digipeater concentrations.  What may be
appropriate in one area may be excessive in another area.

The paths and timing that Bob posted are good ones and are the ones I use
here in Western Washington on our SOMTN digi.  They work well and do not
over saturate the airwaves.  The reason you want to show the big digi
locations to a larger than just immediate area is so that people traveling
to outside their normal area will have an idea of what mountaintop digis are
available into the area you are about to travel to.  I want to know that
information while planning my trip or for hunting or backpacking long before
I get to a specific area.  My wife follows me on APRS while I am in the
mountains and it sure helps to be able to tell her ahead of time that she
will be able to follow my travels or that she will loose me in certain areas
and not to get exited when she does not see me on the screen for several
days.  Those spotty APRS areas are even more spotty for voice repeaters.
And yes, in the state of Washington we still have lots of spotty or totally
void APRS coverage areas.

So yes, I support showing digis a little further than your immediate area
but we no longer have them visible on screens over the entire state or in
neighboring states.  And like I stated above, in metropolitan areas with
lots of APRS station and already too many digipeaters, you may want to
shorten the path to whatever is appropriate in your area.

Herb, KB7UVC
NW APRS Group, West Sound Coordinator
Our WEB Site:  http://www.nwaprs.org

My NEW Email Address:  hgerhardt@wavecable.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Unproto Paths for Digipeaters
From: "Christensen, Eric" <CHRISTENSENE@MAIL.ECU.EDU>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 22:10:35 -0400
X-Message-Number: 32

Okay...  When I look at my map, I hope that all the stations up there are
something that I should be either able to send and receive messages from,
see where a vehicle/person is, or see weather information.  BUT,
unfortunately, there are more stations out there like this:
W4HCH>APW272,N2EDE-3*,WIDE,WIDE,WIDE,WIDE,WIDE,qAS,KD4BNQ-1:!3643.81N/07854.
51WK that show absolutely no messages from this station on findU (this is
not a digi, BTW).  

I don't want to just see stations sitting there beaconing away for no
apparent reason.  I want to see some actual APRS traffic out there.  And I'm
worried as more of these "just here" stations come up, that there WILL be
problems for the stations that want to be there for a purpose.

73s,
Eric KF4OTN
kf4otn@amsat.org

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Best TinyTrak, settings
From: Robbie - WA9INF <mwrobertson@comcast.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 21:08:35 -0500
X-Message-Number: 33

TJ,

It really depends on your area in a short response.. I would suggest this,
RELAY,WIDE2-2 for a starter on the TT3 to the HT. I assume you also are
going to use it with a GPS, <g>

I am not familar with a PocketTracker, but I would also try the same 
RELAY,WIDE2-2 and see if it gets you want you need... If you are wanting to
get to the APRS-IS, evaluate the hops necessary to reach your nearest 
I-Gate..

Good luck and have fun... Best of all, learn what your area standards are
by asking other aprsers!

73,  Robbie

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Unproto Paths for Digipeaters
From: Earl Needham <needhame1@plateautel.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 20:31:37 -0700
X-Message-Number: 34

At 07:10 PM 6/28/2004, Christensen, Eric wrote:
>Okay...  When I look at my map, I hope that all the stations up there are
>something that I should be either able to send and receive messages from,
>see where a vehicle/person is, or see weather information.

Isn't that why we have different symbols for each type of station?

> BUT,
>unfortunately, there are more stations out there like this:
>W4HCH>APW272,N2EDE-3*,WIDE,WIDE,WIDE,WIDE,WIDE,qAS,KD4BNQ-1:!3643.81N/07854.
>51WK that show absolutely no messages from this station on findU (this is
>not a digi, BTW).

Obviously, some amount of education is needed, if for nothing else than to
correct the path this station is using.

>I don't want to just see stations sitting there beaconing away for no
>apparent reason.  I want to see some actual APRS traffic out there.  And I'm
>worried as more of these "just here" stations come up, that there WILL be
>problems for the stations that want to be there for a purpose.

So let's fix the path problems, like shown above, instead of "hiding" our
digis.  But just like Herb said, things are different in various parts of
the country.  What works in one place might be totally inappropriate
someplace else.  (Like the high-powered tracker I used to run, before our
digi system was filled in -- certainly not acceptable in, say, Maryland or
Virginia.)

We need to start thinking about something else, here -- this discussion has
the potential to get as volatile as the ID/NOID discussions...

7 3
Earl

Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico  DM84jk
SETI@Home:  11637WU/7.55yrs

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Best TinyTrak, settings
From: David Rush <david@davidarush.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 20:46:42 -0600
X-Message-Number: 35

TJ:

See http://davidarush.com/tinytrak/

Not perfect settings for every situation, but should work fine for most.

David, ky7dr

---

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