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ZL3AI  > APRDIG   12.07.04 05:25l 526 Lines 17891 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Subj: TAPR Digest, Jul 08, 1/1
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To  : APRDIG@WW

TAPR APRS Special Interest Group Digest for Thursday, July 08, 2004.

1. 9600 Modem
2. Repeater Overlays
3. Re: [ui-view] Repeater Overlays
4. Re: Repeater Overlays
5. Re: [ui-view] Repeater Overlays
6. Lat / Lon text file to map track
7. Re: [ui-view] Repeater Overlays
8. Re: Repeater Overlays
9. Re[2]: [ui-view] Repeater Overlays
10. Re: [ui-view] Repeater Overlays
11. Re: Repeater Overlays
12. Re:  Repeater Overlays
13. Garmin Rino support
14. Re: Garmin Rino support
15. Re: Garmin Rino support
16. Re: Garmin Rino support
17. Re: Garmin Rino support
18. Re: Garmin Rino support
19. Re: question about possession of an object.
20. Re: Power, Path & Digis

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[commercial content deleted]

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Subject: Repeater Overlays
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 08:41:21 -0400
X-Message-Number: 2

>>>shortbri@yahoo.com 7/7/04 3:32:38 PM >>>
>I have created two Overlays, which you can load in UI-View.
>One  [for] all the repeaters in Kansas and the other for Missouri's.
>[They] are available at www.kcaprs.com/rpt.html 
 
For what it is worth, these overlay  .POS files are standard APRS and can
be used with ANY version of APRS even including APRSdos..., etc...  Bob

It would be nice to have these files for every state...
Bob

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Subject: Re: [ui-view] Repeater Overlays
From: Danny <danny@messano.net>
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 08:55:07 -0400
X-Message-Number: 3

Cna they?

I tried loading the files I created for APRSDOS (that I know also work in
WinAPRS) into UI-View32 and it didn't work.

It's too early in the morning to remember what I changed, but I used one of
Rogers built in pos files as a guide and converted a few of mine over.

Maybe I am doing something wrong here?

Danny
KE4RAP

Thursday, July 8, 2004, 8:41:21 AM, you wrote:

>>>>shortbri@yahoo.com 7/7/04 3:32:38 PM >>>
>>I have created two Overlays, which you can load in UI-View.
>>One  [for] all the repeaters in Kansas and the other for Missouri's.
>>[They] are available at www.kcaprs.com/rpt.html 

RB> For what it is worth, these overlay  .POS files are standard 
RB> APRS and can be used with ANY version of APRS even
RB> including APRSdos..., etc...  Bob

RB> It would be nice to have these files for every state...
RB> Bob

-- 

Danny

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Subject: Re: Repeater Overlays
From: "Curt, WE7U" <archer@eskimo.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 08:34:35 -0700 (PDT)
X-Message-Number: 4

On Thu, 8 Jul 2004, Robert Bruninga wrote:

>For what it is worth, these overlay  .POS files are standard
>APRS and can be used with ANY version of APRS even
>including APRSdos..., etc...  Bob

#4 most used APRS Client doesn't support them, near as I can tell.
I don't recall reading about POS files in the spec either.

Is there a spec somewhere on the format of these files?

--
Curt, WE7U			         http://www.eskimo.com/~archer
"Lotto:    A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown
"Windows:  Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U
"The world DOES revolve around me:  I picked the coordinate system!"

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Subject: Re: [ui-view] Repeater Overlays
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 14:10:50 -0400
X-Message-Number: 5

Regarding OVERLAY files in UIview and APRSdos:

>>>danny@messano.net 7/8/04 8:55:07 AM >>>
>Can they?
>
>I tried loading the files I created for APRSDOS 
>(that I know also work in WinAPRS) into UI-View32 
>and it didn't work.

I just tried the two files in question KSrpt.pos and MOrpt.pos and they
both worked fine in APRSdos. And they pop up all over the states.  My only
comment is that they apparently used the MIC-E Repeater symbol instead of
the RADIO symbol which I would have used. Maybe what we need to add to APRS
is a "voice repeater" symbol..?  It could also be used for all the IRLP and
ECHOlink nodes that are showing up too.

>It's too early in the morning to remember what I changed, 
>but I used one of Rogers built in pos files as a guide and 
>converted a few of mine over.
>Maybe I am doing something wrong here?

I just compared them to my other APRSdos .pos files and they seemed to be
in the same format.  And both work just fine.  Is there a central clearing
house for all ..POS files that are available?  Thanks Bob

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Lat / Lon text file to map track
From: Skip Allison <k9sa@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 11:13:33 -0700 (PDT)
X-Message-Number: 6

I need to find a way to display a latitude / longitude text file as a track
on a map.  I have Street Atlas and PM.  Anybody know a way to import Lat /
Lon text file into a map program?  Or Using WinAPRS or SA+? Or Waypoint+ &
convert to GPL file? 

Skip
K9SA

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Subject: Re: [ui-view] Repeater Overlays
From: "Brian L. Short" <shortbri@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 11:16:37 -0700 (PDT)
X-Message-Number: 7

I would be happy to store the files.
 
If you have overlays, please send them to shortbri@yahoo.com & I will post
them at www.kcaprs.org/rpt.html

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Subject: Re: Repeater Overlays
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 14:30:35 -0400
X-Message-Number: 8

Wow, I cant believe they are not in the spec.  Oh, I know probably the
"committee" decreed that it was not an on-air format so I could not insist
on commonality across platforms probably...  The format is simply the TEXT
format of the ITEM format....

Bob

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re[2]: [ui-view] Repeater Overlays
From: Danny <danny@messano.net>
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 14:28:59 -0400
X-Message-Number: 9

I stand corrected..

I realize what my issue was.  I looked at Rogers files FIRST and noticed
all his had a posit line and a status line and ASSUMED my overlays would
need to be in the same format.. I never actually tried loading one of my
POS files as-is.. 

I just now loaded one and it works fine.

DOH!

Danny 
KE4RAP

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: [ui-view] Repeater Overlays
From: Fritz Anderson <fritza@manoverboard.org>
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 13:46:07 -0500
X-Message-Number: 10

Reviewing the symbol table in the spec, I don't see a "radio" symbol. Would
that be /r, "Antenna"?

I see a lot of stations posting (what I assume are) voice repeaters as /m,
which the protocol spec lists as "Mic Repeater." Note that the spec says
Mic, not Mic-E. I wasn't aware there was such a thing as a Mic-E repeater
(not in the spec, and not in anything else I've read), and assumed "Mic
Repeater" meant a repeater for traffic from microphones, to go with the
other symbols for repeaters for digital traffic. Accordingly, I chose an
old-style desk microphone for the map symbol.

So if it's a mistake, it's a natural one to make. (Any mistake I make is
natural.)

73 de WT9T=
-- F

On 8 Jul 2004, at 1:10 PM, Robert Bruninga wrote:

>My only comment
>is that they apparently used the MIC-E Repeater symbol
>instead of the RADIO symbol which I would have used.
>Maybe what we need to add to APRS is a "voice
>repeater" symbol..?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Repeater Overlays
From: Fritz Anderson <fritza@manoverboard.org>
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 13:57:49 -0500
X-Message-Number: 11

This probably won't come up as a practical matter, but can I put a word in
for distinct file name extensions for distinct file types? .shp files are
shapefiles, .geo files are geofiles, .map files are Mac/WinAPRS maps
(unless the parser chokes, in which case I try again as APRSdos...), but
for every other file in the world, I have to open it and see if lines 3
through 7 contain at least one item string (so it's a POS file). And this
is just to validate a drag-and-drop.

Grumble.

73 de WT9T=
-- F

On 8 Jul 2004, at 1:30 PM, Robert Bruninga wrote:

>Wow, I cant believe they are not in the spec.  Oh, I know
>probably the "committee" decreed that it was not an on-air
>format so I could not insist on commonality across platforms
>probably...  The format is simply the TEXT format of the
>ITEM format....
>
>Bob

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re:  Repeater Overlays
From: "WA8LMF@aol.com" <WA8LMF2@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 14:00:01 -0700
X-Message-Number: 12

Fritz Anderson wrote on 7/8/2004, 11:46 AM:

>Reviewing the symbol table in the spec, I don't see a "radio" symbol.
>Would that be /r, "Antenna"?
>
>I see a lot of stations posting (what I assume are) voice repeaters as
>/m, which the protocol spec lists as "Mic Repeater." Note that the spec
>says Mic, not Mic-E. I wasn't aware there was such a thing as a Mic-E
>repeater (not in the spec, and not in anything else I've read), and
>assumed "Mic Repeater" meant a repeater for traffic from microphones,
>to go with the other symbols for repeaters for digital traffic.

There IS such a thing as a "Mic-E repeater" !

It's a voice repeater equipped with a TNC and a second transmitter on 
144.39. The TNC RX is on the voice channel and the TNC TX is on 144.39 . 
The idea is to strip APRS posits send in Mic-E format when you unkey on the
voice channel,  and then retransmit them on 144.39.  The Mic-E format
(short for "Mic Encoder") was originally created precisely for this
purpose.  When configured with a short path and no comment field, you can
actually get a posit out in less than half a second at the end of a voice
transmission.

The original Mic-E was a hardware device that inserted in the mic line 
between the mic and the radio. Both the Kenwood D700 and the THD7 (which 
use Mic-E transmission format for their posits) are capable of this kind of
burst-after-voice operation.    The TigerTrak and TinyTrak can also be
configured for this kind of operation by bridging the audio and PTT lines
of the radio.

Stephen H. Smith                   wa8lmf (at)  aol.com
Home Page:                            http://wa8lmf.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Garmin Rino support
From: Wes Johnston <wes@johnston.net>
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 18:13:39 -0400
X-Message-Number: 13

Folks, Curt has done it!! Xastir now supports the garmin rino unit!

At present if you have GPSMAN and SHAPELIB installed, a quick CVS update 
will give you rino support.   HINT-> look under interfaces menu item for 
'poll rino'.

The rino units have 10 character callsigns, so we use the first 4 as 
APRS, then up to 6 characters for your callsign or alias.  The reasoning 
for this is that one rino unit can poll other rino units, and ANY rino 
with the same first 4 characters in the 'callsign' will respond to the 
poll.  So if I send a query to APRS, any rino units with APRS in the 
first 4 of their callsign will respond within a few seconds. 

Xastir will poll the rino unit for waypoints (the other rino units 
nearby) periodically and publish them as objects which are owned by the 
callsign of the xastir station. The first 4 bytes are stripped off, 
leaving the remaining 6 as an object name.   These will go out on the 
air just like any other object... see http://map.findu.com/H0PE for the 
location of my daughter's rino unit.  The callsign of her rino radio is 
APRSH0PE which ends up on the air as kd4rdb's H0PE object.

The position is transmitted uncompressed so that the kenwood radios can 
display it.  We now have a one way link on-air between the kenwood 
handhelds and the rino handhelds.  Fly xastir on a laptop in an airplane 
over your SAR area and wow!!!

Anyone played with the polling distance air to ground with the rino's?

Wes

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Garmin Rino support
From: "Spider" <spider@rivcom.net>
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 16:25:38 -0700
X-Message-Number: 14

..> Anyone played with the polling distance air to ground with the rino's?

Is FRS legal in an airplane?

Jim, WA6OFT

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Garmin Rino support
From: wes@johnston.net
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 19:30:30 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 15

95.192 (FRS Rule 2) Authorized locations.

(a) Provided that you comply with these rules, you are authorized to
    operate an FRS unit:
.....snip.....
    (3) Aboard any vessel or aircraft registered in the United States,
        with the permission of the captain, that is within or over any
        area of the world where radio services are regulated by the FCC or
        upon or over international waters; or

Wes

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Garmin Rino support
From: "Curt, WE7U" <archer@eskimo.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 16:32:08 -0700 (PDT)
X-Message-Number: 16

On Thu, 8 Jul 2004, Spider wrote:

>.>Anyone played with the polling distance air to ground with the rino's?
>
>Is FRS legal in an airplane?

All you have to do is receive...

--
Curt, WE7U			         http://www.eskimo.com/~archer
"Lotto:    A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown
"Windows:  Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U
"The world DOES revolve around me:  I picked the coordinate system!"

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Garmin Rino support
From: Rick Green <rtg@aapsc.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 19:55:15 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 17

On Thu, 8 Jul 2004, Wes Johnston wrote:

>Folks, Curt has done it!! Xastir now supports the garmin rino unit!

WHat's the interface between the rino and the xastir PC?

-- 
Rick Green

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
 temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
                                  -Benjamin Franklin

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Garmin Rino support
From: wes@johnston.net
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 20:12:49 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 18

A program which runs when called by xastir called GPSMAN... it provides a
command line interface which xastir can access.  Physically, we're using
the serial cable which came with the rino.

Wes

On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 19:55:15 -0400 (EDT), Rick Green wrote:

>On Thu, 8 Jul 2004, Wes Johnston wrote:
> 
>>Folks, Curt has done it!! Xastir now supports the garmin rino unit!
>>
> WHat's the interface between the rino and the xastir PC?
> 
>--
>Rick Green

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: question about possession of an object.
From: "Spider" <spider@rivcom.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 18:22:34 -0700
X-Message-Number: 19

>It would take a revision to the spec to allow the functionality
>you're describing.

And, is it really a big issue to be concerned about?  The data, they must
understand (even their own) is provisional and subject to change...without
notice.  I never hear of anyone messing with objects.

Jim, WA6OFT

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Power, Path & Digis
From: "Peter Maxfield" <pete@petemaxfield.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 22:45:28
X-Message-Number: 20

Well, I'm back!

Coverage was better than expected, even in the desolate areas of I-80 in 
PA

http://geo.aprsworld.net/map/track.phtml?call=W1LBR-9&skipTable=0&skipBogusChec0
k=&start_year
04&start_month=7&start_day=4&start_hour=3&start_minute=27&end_year
04&end_month=7&end_day=9&end_hour=0&end_minute=0&start_weeks=0&start_days=0&sta_
rthours=&start_minutes=0&end_weeks=0&end_days=0&end_hours=&end_minutes=0

My daughter was able to see where we were via aprsworld.  We couldn't even 
suprise her that we were coming home a little early!

I only received 1 message during my trip, and that was to remind me that 
stationary vehicles should transmit every 30 minutes. I think it was an 
autoamtic message.

I do have ct enabled on the aprs freq. and keep the volume up a little to 
hear any nearby packets, but only heard 3 or 4 the whole trip.

146.52 was desolate. I heard a qrz around 3 AM, but couldn't call back in 
fear of waking the wife and dogs (bulldogs)

I had two little problems and don't know how to address them:

1. As you travelacross the United States, you receive a lot of packets.  i 
mean a lot!  I had to clear out the waypoints in my Garmin GPS III+ twice.  
This is tedious when you are traveling at 70+ MPH

Does anyone know a way to just overwrite these waypoints?

2. I also received an error message on the Garmin stating that "Invalid 
waypoint received".  You have to press enter to get past this message and 
restore the display.  Has anyone else had this problem and a way to filter 
out the culprit packet.  I wouldn't even know where to begin to try and 
"catch" the packet to review it

BTW, it is much easier to leave the aprs menu up on the bottom of the 
screen, thanx Bob!

So overall, IMO, the idea of tracking my location on a long trip was 
interesting, but not as valuable as using it in a local tactical program 
for measuring and coordinating response.
 Are their APRS coordinators for areas of the US? How would I contact 
then?

I have been unsuccesful in hooking up my notebook to the D700 to look at 
the data.  I just received a new cable db9f/db9f.  I'll keep trying with 
hyperterminal to get a connection.

Again, thanx to all who read my post and many thanx who took the time to 
reply!

73, 
de, W1LBR 
Peter

---

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